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Re: California Dreamin' lyric question

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:09 pm
by Ars_Nova_Chris
Tri.Moon wrote:
Ars_Nova_Chris wrote:The only proof there could be is to hear John Phillips say "this is what the lyric is intended to be...", and that's probably not gonna happen any time soon... ;)


So you'r saying that not even the official The Mamas and The Papas Songbook is right and you can't trust it? Come on, they got that information somewhere and I bet it was reliable, I don't think that they would use internet instead asking the correct lyrics. That was made back in 2000 and I guess the internet wasn't in use so much.

And can I ask why the h*ll are you asking the correct lyrics if you don't belive anything, not even the official songbook? Plus you already know the answer to your question and that is that there's no chance that we will know the right lyrics, at least that's what you are saying. So stop asking questions if you can't take the answers and any proofs, smartass. ;)


There is no "official" M&P's songbook, but, just so you know, that is right, songbooks are not necessarily correct, in either the musical notation or the lyrics, and, no, you cannot "trust" them. As a music major looking possibly toward work in the field of transcribing, I can tell you for a fact that what you find in any songbook is only the transcribers interpretation of both the music and the lyrics.

Oh, and I wasn't exactly asking someone to tell me what the correct lyric was, I was simply looking to have an interesting and pleasant discussion on the matter. :D

Re: California Dreamin' lyric question

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:34 am
by Sportguynj1
I agree - we sang this song in high school and I still have the sheet music (music and lyrics by John Phillips and Michelle Gilliam) which we used - it clearly says "You know the preacher likes the cold - he knows I'm going to stay."
I sat in the first row of one of the New Mamas and Papas concerts back in 1982 and that's exactly the lyric that Denny sang. John even told the audience the history of the song since it was written here in NYC.

The song was written in the early winter of 1963 and in every book or interview both John and Michelle state the inspiration for the song was how they spent a very cold day in Manhattan which was Michelle's first exposure to snow. Michelle didn't have any winter clothes and they were so cold they stopped into St. Patrick's Cathedral to get warm. And that's another reason that "the preacher lights the coals" lyric would make no sense at all. I've been to St. Patrick's Cathedral and its one of the biggest churches in New York City and has a very modern heating system so the preacher wasn't lighting any coals there, lol!

Rob

Re: California Dreamin' lyric question

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:09 pm
by Owen Elliot-Kugell
here's a theory..my mother and Michelle are singing two different sets of lyrics on the record. .

Personally, I have no idea what JP or MP intended, but I hardly think the lyric makes sense as, "Preacher liked/likes the cold, he knows I'm gonna stay"
">>Preacher lights the coals, he knows I'm gonna stay" makes far more sense. I think that both things are actually being sung, thus making for a lot of confusion..!

-Owen

Re: California Dreamin' lyric question

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:08 am
by jcg
Owen Elliot-Kugell wrote:here's a theory..my mother and Michelle are singing two different sets of lyrics on the record. .

Personally, I have no idea what JP or MP intended, but I hardly think the lyric makes sense as, "Preacher liked/likes the cold, he knows I'm gonna stay"
">>Preacher lights the coals, he knows I'm gonna stay" makes far more sense. I think that both things are actually being sung, thus making for a lot of confusion..!

-Owen


This is very plausable as it also happens on "Somebody Groovy" off of the first album. At one point, one of the ladies (I believe it's Michelle) sings "they gotta move me like they should" out of one speaker and the other (Cass?) sings "they gotta love me like they should" out of the other speaker. I haven't tried it, but listening with headphones may clear up the confusion.

Re: California Dreamin' lyric question

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:58 am
by pufnstuf
we could get barry macs advice on this he did in fact record this with the mamas and papas

Re: California Dreamin' lyric question

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:49 am
by John Sands
I hear just Cas singing lead on 'Groovy' and would think that the 2 voices are double track

Re: California Dreamin' lyric question

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:30 pm
by Tri.Moon
I did some audioedit to Monterey Pop California Dreamin' Live peformance since I have that track in stereo and Denny's/John's vocals come from other channel and Cass's from other. So I basically removed music and left just vocals.

Denny's/John's vocals:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/v5khco

Cass's vocals:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/dlysue

I hope this clears some air. I knew it already but if somebody didn't know it goes like this:

Denny: "Well I got on my knee" (without s)
Cass: "Got on my knees"

Denny: "You know the preacher liked the cold"
John: "Preacher likes the cold"
Cass: "Preacher likes the cold"

Also those files prove that Michelle didn't sing.

Re: California Dreamin' lyric question

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:00 am
by pufnstuf
heard back from barry
who had recorded his version before the mamas and papas
and it is preacher likes the cold
Hi Terry,

You have my permission to post this. "The lyric is: "Preacher likes
the COLD." The context of the song is about "all the leaves are
brown and the sky is grey. I've been for a walk on a winter's day."
The word WINTER is the key that John used for the word COLD.

I can see how someone might think that the preacher is lighting the
coals in his furnace to keep the church warm, making it more inviting
to stay, but when I recorded the tune, which I actually did before
the Mamas and Papas took my voice off the recording and used my track
for their super-mega hit release (ah, there's no business like show
business), when I recorded the song, I sang, "Preacher likes the COLD."

Hope this helps.

By the way, if anyone wants to check it out and they just listen to
the left track on the stereo recording of California Dreamin', they
will still hear a little bit of my voice that didn't quite get
erased. And if you'd be so kind as to post my
www.trippinthesixties.com URL for all to see, I would really
appreciate it.

Barry

Re: California Dreamin' lyric question

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:47 am
by Owen Elliot-Kugell
[quote][/quote]Also those files prove that Michelle didn't sing.


Her microphone was turned off...

Re: California Dreamin' lyric question

PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:33 pm
by Papa J
Can Owen or anyone explain why Michelle's microphone was turned off? I've always wondered what the deal was with her missing vocals. If you watch the DVD footage, you can clearly see that she is singing along and getting into the performances - her vocals just aren't audible (although I can hear a couple of snippets of her singing). If you listen very closely during the middle part of "I Call Your Name," where the guys and Michelle sing in unison - "Since you've been gone," and at the very end of "California Dreamin," when there is a closeup of Michelle and Cass, you can hear her singing at the tail end of "on such a winter's day." Does anyone know if Michelle has ever addressed this? I know she has bemoaned the Monterey performance and the lack of rehearsal for it, but has she commented that no one can hear her vocals?