Disturbing revelations about John and Mackenzie

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Re: Disturbing revelations about John and Mackenzie

Postby ChrisOtheBigC » Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:43 pm

Hello all.
Chris O, here.

Disturbing revelations to say the least.

What can one say about such upsetting and sad new, without hurting others even more? It is difficult to put into words what I have been feeling about this, other than sadness and pain. Just contemplating the words that will be flung carelessly about concerning John and Mackenzie is enough to make me want to cry. Regardless of what the truth is. How cruel we all are to each other, at times.

Owen wrote: Read the book and be your own judge. Sound advice, but I don't think I can read it, just now. I can, however, be my own judge.

I find that I need to admit this: I believe Mackenzie.

Certainly pain is an undeniable aftermath of such revelations. Anger and hurt. Still, the best thing that could happen, is healing. Coming to peaceful terms with mistakes one has made; with crimes that have been commited against us. Forgiveness for oneself, and for others. Sometimes you have to wade through a whole lot of shit before you can get to the sunshine.

I don't think that any of us have to condone incest or approve of it, in order to come to terms with healing and moving on, as Mackenzie seems to be trying to do. I don't believe that I have to give John Phillips the golden thumbs up for ANY of his bad behavior, or offer up any excuses for ANYONE, in order to enjoy music.

Here is what truly hurts me: John apparently raped his daughter. How I hate to even think of such a thing. That they continued in whatever kind of relationship is their own business. Of course, Mackenzie has now chosen to make it the business of the world. So, the opions and feelings and words will fly. Some will argue that she should have kept her mouth shut. We must remember that it is her story to tell.

I have always had love for John Phillips. He has given me things that I can never repay with his brilliant artistry. That he was a seriously flawed human being, is not news to me. I do not believe that this new information will change my opinion on the good things that he did with his life. It does not destroy my love for him, or for Mackenzie. It is not only a choice that I am making, but where my heart is taking me.

To be completely honest, this news has made me feel awful, but not surprised. I cannot explain exactly why, but that is how I feel. John Phillips was so completely taken over by drugs and alcohol. That is a condition he actively and willingly passed on to those whom he should have protected the most. The entire dynamic of his family life was completely heartbreaking.

Mackenzie asks that we do not hate her father. She feels that despite all, that he was still a good man. I have to confess, that I still believe this, also. He gave joy in his life, as well as the pain. He was not an angel, and he was not the devil. Despite all of his extraordinary gifts and tragic mistakes, he was finally just a man.

I know many of you will disagree with my opinions, as they stand today. I wish you all healing, whatever you might be going through just now, fellow listeners and readers.

Love to all,
Chris O
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Re: Disturbing revelations about John and Mackenzie

Postby Ars_Nova_Chris » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:03 pm

A very thoughtful and well-spoken post, Chris. Just keep this in mind, everyone - we don't know if any of this is at all true, and certainly there are some things about it that seem fishy, to say the least. As Janice Phillips just posted over on Facebook - "When money drives the bus, integrity usually moves to the back seat... old Southern adage".
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Re: Disturbing revelations about John and Mackenzie

Postby TRAVISJAMES03 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:10 pm

Also, one has to keep in mind (like I think Michelle is) the impact that this might have on future M&P music sales if the Mac's story is true. I don't see how Michelle can deny it when Chynna says that she believes Mac.

I know that sounds cold, but as the only surviving member of the group, $$$ might play a big part in Michelle's opinions.
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Re: Disturbing revelations about John and Mackenzie

Postby ChrisOtheBigC » Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:31 pm

Honestly, I would think that Michelle's opinion comes right from her heart, just as mine has. Michelle has seemed pretty straight up with how she feels about things that have happened over the years. I have expressed myself honestly, and do not know for a fact that I am correct, it's just what I have been feeling.

Would money be a factor in what Genevieve Waite has said about this controversy? She does not believe Mackenzie either. My gut feeling is that both Michelle and Gen are reacting to hard news about a man whom they both deeply loved, in strong conjunction with anything that they believe to be true themselves.

Michelle has never made a secret over her appreciation of money, but I don't believe for a second that she would state her opinion on this issue based on the possible negative effect that it might have on any future Mamas & Papas sales. Michelle and Chynna more than likely disagree on any number of topics, I'm sure.
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Re: Disturbing revelations about John and Mackenzie

Postby TRAVISJAMES03 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:24 pm

Well, the only other answer that I can think of is that both women are in denial because they probably cannot (especially Michelle) wrap their minds around the fact that a man they both loved could do something so vile (allegedly).

Only two people know for sure what happened and one is dead....so I suppose that it is up to the individual to decide (however, the fact that Mac admitted that it - at least in her mind - was consensual tells a lot).

Had she said "My dad molested me and I fought him, etc." might have been different - but she is putting herself out there by saying "my father and I had sex for ten years and I became pregnant with a child that could have been his and had an abortion, etc."

IMO, I think that she is telling the truth - but I have NOT read her book yet - but (unless she is an awesome actress) the pain that you could see on her face was real and it looked like she was going to snap at any moment. I am very glad that Valerie Bertinelli showed up because I really think that saved Mac's sanity at that point.

This does not affect my view of the M&P's music because this (allegedly) happened after the original group was over (at least it happened after the original group was over that Mac can recall).

Also, the fact that none of Mac's siblings are coming to JP's defense says a lot too.
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Re: Disturbing revelations about John and Mackenzie

Postby TRAVISJAMES03 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:28 pm

BTW - has Mac's bio mom, Susan, said anything about this?

As far as I know, she hasn't.
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Re: Disturbing revelations about John and Mackenzie

Postby dunhill » Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:24 pm

I would be interested to hear what Scott and/or Spanky have to say about this. Supposedly this was happening during the new Ms & Ps period, so I wonder if they ever felt it was happening or found out about it. Anyway, this is all such a mess. I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around it.

Charles
DUNHILL is "TURNING-ON" the PEOPLE
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Re: Disturbing revelations about John and Mackenzie

Postby TRAVISJAMES03 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:40 pm

Mac will be back on Oprah today (09-25-09) to discuss the support & fallout of her claims.
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Re: Disturbing revelations about John and Mackenzie

Postby TRAVISJAMES03 » Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:59 am

Wow - the e-mail to Oprah by Jessica Woods (Doherty) really put it over the top.

What does everyone think of that?
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Re: Disturbing revelations about John and Mackenzie

Postby ignasi » Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:30 am

Money, money and money.
What I think is that Mackenzie (if it's true or not what she said) has put a big dirty mark at The Mamas & Papas reputation. What is unfair is that Denny, Michelle and Cass are involved in that story (collateral damages). For instance, I heard a radio program where they were badmouthing and making jokes about all, with the music of the Mamas & the Papas backgrounds.
People won't look at the Mamas & The Papas as they did before. It's all sick. I can not listen his music as I did before I knew Mackenzie story. And now, Chynna and Denny's daughter say Mackenzie don't lie!
Anyway, I think Mackenzie is very selfish. Why did she tell this story NOW?? It's such a private story to tell everyone, don't you think? The answer is MONEY.
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